Wang Peng, General Manager of Engineering and Technology of GE Aviation Group in China.
Aero-engine manufacturing is the crown in the industrial system, and it is highly sensitive, which is the technology that China has been longing for. In the past, in the general habitual expression, aero-engines were highly related to the western technical blockade of China.
In recent years, China has stepped up the independent research and development of aero-engines, and China’s huge aviation market has also shown strong attraction, and major aviation giants have more careful consideration of their own interests. Under the comprehensive effect of various factors, the manufacturing of China local aero-engines has made great progress. In January, 2016, in an exclusive interview with The Paper, Wang Peng, general manager of engineering technology in China of GE Aviation Group, talked about the so-called "technical blockade".
In fact, in the process of localization of cutting-edge technology of western giants, we should give up prejudice and fully believe in the power of the market. It is believed that based on the principle of mutual benefit, there is no technical blockade that harms others and does not benefit others. On the premise of observing the rules, in fact, everything can be discussed.
GE attaches great importance to training local talents in China.
The Paper:How many people in GE China serve the ARJ21 project?
Wang Peng:As the first engineer of the ARJ21/CF34-10A project team, I arrived in Shanghai in 2003. In the past ten years, in China, our engineering team has done three things. One is related to the engine, including the ARJ21 project and the ship project. The second block is the supply chain support of the whole region, covering Chinese mainland, Taiwan Province and other regions. The third is aviation services. I am mainly doing these three aspects of work now. (ARJ21 is a regional aircraft with independent intellectual property rights developed by China according to international standards. CF34-10A is an engine used by ARJ21 and manufactured by GE Aviation Group. -editor’s note)
There aren’t many of us, only 140 in all. On the ARJ21/CF34-10A project, there are only four of us today. This project has passed the peak stage, and the next step is to support it how to enter the airlines to run. At present, these four people are very important, and two Model Leader will be trained for this model in the future, one is the engineering chief engineer of CF34-10A, and the other is the service chief engineer of CF34 family engine. Although there are only four people in China, they can mobilize global resources to support this project. The reason why such a key chief engineer is transferred to China is to better support China’s aircraft project and airline operation. These two chief teachers are very young, both born in the 1980s.
The PaperChief engineer means to be responsible from design to production?
Wang Peng:The chief engineer is responsible for the whole life cycle of this model. For example, COMAC (China Commercial Aircraft Co., Ltd.) is the chief engineer of engine design for wide-body aircraft, responsible for the progress of the project, the determination and review of technology, fund management, and how to mobilize global resources to implement the development of this project. This chief engineer is in China, but the whole design team may not be in China in the future. There are American teams, Indian teams and Polish teams. This chief engineer should be able to mobilize all resources to serve this project.
The Paper:Since there has been a mature design process and a mature head teacher before, why should we put a new head teacher and set up a new team in China?
Wang Peng:Because ARJ21 and wide-body aircraft are both aircraft models of China, and the customers are in China. In the long run, this position is most suitable in China. It can be seen from this that GE is very open. GEnx-1B/2B is the model chief engineer of the third service in the world in China, and now he is training in the United States. Now I’m talking about the work scope of GE90′ s overall system leader in China, and I’ll decide soon and start recruiting. The model chief engineer of LEAP-1C will also be in China in the future. Most of these people are born in the 1980s. Although they are in China, their functions are actually very extensive. Depending on different types of engines, they can cover Australia and New Zealand in the south and Japan in the north. (GEnx-1B/2B and GE90 are engines produced by GE Aviation Group. LEAP-1C is the only designated foreign engine of China’s first large aircraft C919, which is manufactured by CFM, a joint venture between GE and Safran Group. -editor’s note)
At GE headquarters, it is impossible to get this position organically without 20 years’ working experience, but in China, it can be seen that GE attaches importance to and cultivates China. At present, there are less than 20 commercial engine models operated by GE, and the chief engineer of so many models is Chinese, which is a great decentralization to us. On the other hand, this is what our China team has been striving to prove its strength, build trust and constantly break through man-made obstacles for so many years, driven by market demand.
Strictly abide by the laws of China and the United States in intellectual property rights.
The Paper:Are you worried about intellectual property rights?
Peng WangIntellectual property rights are like this. We must abide by the laws of the United States and China at the same time. Intellectual property sometimes becomes an excuse. Secondly, this is a wall in many Chinese’s heart. Before we start making it, there is a wall there that we can’t cross.
It is normal and understandable that Americans are worried about intellectual property rights in China. In this case, we should protect intellectual property rights better, so that everyone can rest assured and work can be carried out. The same is true of export restrictions. We must strictly abide by the laws of the two countries and cannot make any mistakes in export restrictions. But this does not mean that we can do a lot of things without doing it, within the scope permitted by law. This is my view on intellectual property protection and export restrictions. If you want to do everything, you have a hundred ways to do it. If you don’t want to do something, there are a hundred reasons not to do it.
The Paper:We always feel that intellectual property rights have thorns and cannot be touched.
Wang Peng:You think that you are shorter than others, and you always think that others will bully you. This is a psychological state of inferiority, which makes you unable to get along with others. Let’s face this problem. We have done a lot of work on export restrictions, because as a supply chain support, we can’t limit our work to China. Our goal is the whole Asian region. If I want to do this, I must understand the legal restrictions on the export of related products in the United States, otherwise I may violate the rules, or many people will say that there are export restrictions here and Chinese cannot do it.
Then, let’s talk to lawyers who specialize in export restrictions, look at one legal clause after another, analyze one part by one, and study one factory by one to see what risks there will be. In the end, we got the answer that we can do a lot of things.
Before doing this, many people will use this as an excuse to say that you can’t do this or that, or we have limited ourselves in our hearts. Therefore, when you encounter this kind of problem, there is no way to avoid it, but to solve it face to face. We can talk about these things in the open. Otherwise, either limit yourself to death or violate the rules, which will cause problems.
It is not a manufacturing technical problem that China can’t make an engine.
The PaperWhat is the technology spillover effect of foreign companies?
Peng WangMany parts of GE’s engine are made in China.
The most restrictive export is the hot-end component, that is, the high-pressure turbine. The blades of the high-pressure turbine are not made in China, but the high-pressure turbine disk is made in China. The high-pressure turbine shroud ring, which we studied in the past, can be made in China, but the last one was not brought here because of economic problems, not export restrictions. The combustion chamber can’t be made in China, but the head of the combustion chamber has been made in China, and the engine casing from beginning to end has been made in China. There are many rotors in the engine, and the discs of the rotors are all made in China.
There is a special supplier for bearings. I haven’t investigated carefully whether this supplier is in China. The engine has two shafts, one is the shaft of high-pressure rotor, which we made in China; The shaft of the low-pressure rotor was not made in China because the current technology in China is not good, and we are developing it, but we haven’t developed a very good qualified product, so we didn’t make it in China. There are also engine blades. Our high-pressure turbine blades cannot be made in China, which is the requirement of export restrictions. Other blades were not made in China, not because of export restrictions, but because it was uneconomical to make them in China. Blade of low pressure turbine, our partner has already made it in China.
So, as you can see, what an engine can’t do in China is too limited. You say that the China engine can’t be made is a manufacturing technical problem, which is pure nonsense. This is not a problem. Even if the high-pressure turbine blades are not made in China, the high-pressure turbine drilling technology is developed in China, and many things can be made in Chinese.
We help China suppliers grow rapidly.
The Paper:What is the growth of GE’s downstream suppliers in China?
Peng WangWe cooperate with suppliers. We have helped China suppliers grow very fast in recent years. The first growth is from not being able to do it to being able to do it. It took us a long time, more than ten years, to train China suppliers to be able to do it. Second, if it can be done, it should be more economical and competitive. It is also our team that has done a lot of work to make our suppliers do better.
Then, we don’t just consider the problem from the perspective of processing. From the perspective of industrial chain, the main characteristics of China’s manufacturing industry are that both ends are outside, raw materials are imported, and the market is abroad. Buy raw materials from abroad, do technical processing, and then export. This industrial model is unsafe. Since 2011, I have been promoting the localization of raw materials, not just machining in China, but also producing raw materials in China. It took us four or five years, and now the suppliers in China have almost been trained. Now many forgings are made in China, and some castings have been made in China.
We push further upstream, and the upstream is high-temperature alloy. If these high-temperature alloy factories are cultivated into qualified suppliers of GE, this line will be on the line, from the production of high-temperature alloy to the production of forgings and castings to the mechanical processing production, all in China. When our industrial chain is built, it will be very stable.
The Paper:Is it a big investment?
Wang Peng:Investment is investment, not as big as the outside world thinks. Our funds are very limited, and we rely more on market leverage to solve problems. We have invested a lot in technology, and I have a lot of engineers who just do technology. This is how to develop new parts and new processes.
For example, the latest LEAP engine we are making now has a very difficult part, which is a guide behind our high-pressure compressor, and that is a very, very difficult part to machine. Three or four years ago, our team of engineers from GE Aviation Engineering Department cooperated with a company in the manufacturing laboratory of GE Shanghai R&D Center to process this piece with the latest technology. After the final processing technology was developed, the processing time was shortened by half compared with that of American suppliers at that time. We developed this technology and gave it to our supplier in China for free, so that they can be manufactured. At present, Xi ‘an Aero Engine Co., Ltd. is the main supplier of this part. This is an example of how to use technology to promote the development of manufacturing industry.
Excessive speculation is a risk.
The Paper:GE doesn’t worry about suppliers getting up, but another company will integrate them and compete with you?
Wang Peng:In a market economy, we don’t speculate excessively, and everything is very simple. A lot of things are done, and if you don’t do anything, you are afraid of unnecessary risks, then you can’t do it. To solve the problem, we should put all the problems on the table. What’s the good of you doing this? I guess I’m willing to talk to him if I dare to put it on the table. Excessive speculation is a risk, and many misunderstandings and suspicions can be overcome if they are put on the table.
The Paper:Aren’t there many restrictions on American technology exports to China?
Peng WangI went to many universities to enroll students, and many people told me: What you GE did in China is not the core technology of engines. What can you learn? I said, some people always see what they don’t get, and often don’t cherish what they get. Let’s not talk about those core technologies yet. First, there are many export restrictions, and people will not give them to you. Second, China doesn’t do these businesses at all. Why should I give them to you? Let’s throw this piece away first.
What has been given to you now, how is it going? Is everything that Chinese has got ready? For example, with so many suppliers, we give you drawings and specifications. Can you do it? The answer is often: I can’t do it. I will send many engineers to help him do it. If you can’t do everything I give you, and you still cry and shout all day, this logic is untenable because I can’t develop because of restrictions. That’s the excuse.
There are many private suppliers now.
The Paper: How to train suppliers and what kind of supplier training to choose?
Peng WangAt present, the main suppliers are state-owned enterprises, and the enterprises of AVIC (aviation industry corporation of china) are the main ones. They have a good foundation, as most of our suppliers do now. But we are constantly developing new suppliers, and now more private companies have come in. In the past, there were no people looking for private enterprises. With the development of the national economy, there are many private suppliers, and the proportion is increasing little by little. Although there are very few now, you can see their growth.
As our supplier of forgings, it is private and doing well. You will see more and more private suppliers coming in among these new fields. When I was developing them, I particularly emphasized that you should have raw materials. The aviation industry is very different from other manufacturing industries in processing, that is, there are many special processes. The establishment of independent special process capability will greatly help the development of private enterprises. Special technology needs the accumulation of enterprises for many years. If private enterprises only do a simple technical processing without special technology, it is difficult to survive. Without the resources of these special technology suppliers in the market, private enterprises cannot develop.
In the development of our supply chain, this is a very important step, raw materials are particularly important, independent special process capacity building is also very important, and the entry of private economy is also very important. So we are a complete supply chain.
The Paper: Is your technology provided to suppliers, paid or free?
Peng Wang: We are basically free. The motivation for us to do this comes from the parts we made in this area, which are more competitive in price and cheaper than those purchased elsewhere. This reduction in procurement cost is enough for us to support these engineers. Relying solely on morality to restrain people is unsustainable and must be mutually beneficial.
We can do a lot of things in Chinese, depending on whether we have the opportunity to do it.
The Paper:What services have you provided for C919?
Wang Peng:C919 engine system integration, flight test and evidence collection are all done by CFM. GE has two parts in the middle of C919, one is the propulsion system, which we made; The other is avionics. We have a joint venture with AVIC. The propulsion system is mainly made by CFM in the field, from system-level design to flight test and evidence collection. We have done more on C919 than on ARJ21. The structural design of the engine nacelle was done by our team in China. The design of engine peripheral pipeline is also designed by our team in China. (CFM is a joint venture between GE and Safran Group of France, and is the world’s leading supplier of civil aircraft engines. -editor’s note)
When I took over this team in 2008, there were 22 people, few people and limited ability. I thought from that moment, how can we develop further. In 2010, a strategic conference on the division of labor in various regions of the world will be held in the United States. There are three themes, one is manufacturing, the other is engine design, and the other is aircraft system. We have been manufacturing for many years, and I was only invited to the manufacturing sub-meeting. I think if we don’t fight for it, how can we have a chance to enter the other two fields? I took two people, one to attend the engine design meeting, one to attend the manufacturing meeting, and I went to the aircraft system meeting myself.
At the meeting, everyone introduced their abilities. At that time, an Indian team talked about how powerful they were. At that time, the Indian team had 400 to 500 people, Poland had more than 300 people, and Mexico had 600 to 700 people. We couldn’t compare with them at all. They all talked about how powerful they were, and when they all finished, I said we should talk about it. In the field of aircraft systems, our team’s capability is zero. I clicked a point on the blackboard, but considering the capability of China R&D Center, we are not zero, so I drew a circle on it. If we consider the ability of suppliers, we will be even bigger. Of all the countries where global engineering teams are located, only China can make airplanes and rockets. Our GE China team has zero ability now because we have not been given the opportunity to do it before. If I am given the opportunity, I will definitely build up my ability.
In this way, from then on, we built the system structure design team from scratch, and the head of the C919 nacelle fan cover was in China. I have always wanted to say that there are many things we can do in Chinese, depending on whether we have the opportunity to do it. I graduated for more than 20 years now, and my work is simply summed up, that is, I am doing the process from zero to one.
The Paper:What is the confidence that China can do many things?
Peng WangThe C919 project is here, and the market itself has such a demand. If this project is a Boeing project and we do it in China, this reason is not so good. Of course, if we are the best team in this field, I think we can also do Boeing projects. Second, China has people and is rich in engineers. China graduates 7 million college students a year. No country in Europe has these people. I have been to the Czech Republic. They graduate 3600 college students a year. How can they compare with us? There is no way to compare resources. Moreover, engineers in China are very hard-working. At night, there are many engineers working overtime on our floor. I often advise them to leave early, but no one wants to leave. Also, you have to follow a very standardized process, plus resources, a lot of things can be made.
